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Post by mironlang on Mar 9, 2020 5:18:12 GMT
Now i am totally confused. That is good news!
admitting that you are confused is a very promising move.
next step is to clear the confusion. all answers are already within you.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 6:31:26 GMT
Now i am totally confused. That is good news!
admitting that you are confused is a very promising move.
next step is to clear the confusion. all answers are already within you.
Yes that is a very good starting point Ihayikk. I would suggest going back to the top of the thread and read again the posts and when you come to a point of not understanding ask the poster to explain what has just been written. Yes I know it takes time however if you truely want to make progress with whats needed to be more aware its the way to go as I see it. The people on this forum are only toooooo happy to help others come to an understanding or their own personal paths. stranger2 started the thread so ask him/her to help with your confusion.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 6:57:19 GMT
This is the game of egoic state of consciousness. That is why it is full of lies,suffering, wars, manipulation, illusions, confusion, abuse and so on. We can assume that it was likely created by single or collective consciousness which is also in the egoic state, because for any consciousness not in the egoic state such creation would simply make no sense. But it is actually not important who and how it was created and I have nothing against it anyway. I am not sabotaging it and have no plans to destroy it, there is nothing malevolent neither in accepting it not in rejecting it, it's simply a matter of personal choice. For everyone who still likes it and wants to continue to play in it - go for it by all means! But I claim my right to freedom to opt out from it. I have a ground to believe that this game is not the only one and there are other games in the entirety of universes that do not involve egoic states of consciousness. There is also an option for an individual consciousness to stay non-involved in any games at all, this is so called state of Void. I will give below some NDE accounts on the Void experiences. The bottom-line is we have 3 options to participate or not to participate in 2 types of games: no participation (Void), non-egoic games, egoic games. The choice is completely free, and forcing anyone to participate (or not) in any type of game would be a violation of free will. "That is why it is full of lies,suffering, wars, manipulation, illusions, confusion, abuse and so on. We can assume that it was likely created by single or collective consciousness which is also in the egoic state" I repeat..There is a malevolent something that does not like this creation and this something will do anything to sabotage it. this explains why "it is full of lies,suffering, wars, manipulation, illusions, confusion, abuse". You are now in victim mode. be a healer. I really dont understand your view on the above. Why would the poster be in a victim mode?? and isnt the information being given a way to heal the injustices even if it is only one person at a time. I dont see fear in the posters narative only information being presented giving his/her found facts. Perhaps I'm not looking at each individuals perspective concerning the issues being discused here and maybe only from my own view of transcending this corrupted reality. Information is just that-- information and nothing else. Its the intension with which it is given that is important and I feel all here have the intension to inform others their view re reincarnation in their own individual way and to me that is great.
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Post by Stranger2 on Mar 9, 2020 14:10:54 GMT
Here is a few thoughts regarding the topic of soul-recycling again. Most people I meet (this forum included) are of two types: one is extreme sceptics, others are firm believers (such as in WPP or other type of worldviews). I'd like to offer a more common-sense empirical approach.
I'm actually a person with very empirical and skeptical approach to the reality to the extend that I even consider materialism to be as much a religion as any other. My approach is to consider the facts and data and make reasonable assumptions and possible predictions of the consequences based on probability assessment. From that standpoint what data and info do we have regarding the reincarnation and soul recycling? These assumptions do not need to become religious beliefs, they are simply possible scenarios in the situation of uncertainty and limited knowledge and data.
- We have scientifically proven and verifiable data form the NDE medical studies suggesting that consciousness is independent of the physical brain activity. (see paper references above) - The studies in modern philosophy of consciousness (see the works of David Chalmers and others) suggest that consciousness is fundamental and can not be a by-product of material brain - There is a vast amount of NDE accounts data. Their credibility is supported by the medical studies above, however, the data suggests that the reality in the "after-life" state is much more subjective and "fluid" compared to the earthly live existence. - There is a strong factual evidence of the reincarnation based on the works of prof. Stevenson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Stevenson ) - There is a large amount of data from past life regression therapy. If we take it by itself (apart from the above studies) then the credibility of the past regression studies is low. But taken together with the above data on NDE and reincarnation, it's credibility becomes higher.
The data from all of the above seem to suggest that the most typical after-death scenario is the following: our consciousness (let's call it "soul") continues to function after the death of the body and enters a certain "realm" with various conscious content, most typically starting from going through a tunnel. After some time of hanging around in that state it re-enters the body at its birth. Re-entering (based on regression therapy data and some NDE accounts) typically happen because the soul is being strongly convinced by some other conscious entities to reincarnate. In the next incarnation the soul loses all its past lives memories and starts the journey from scratch, although it still carries unconscious imprints and emotional patterns from the events of past lives and the memories can be partially restored by hypnosis. Many NDE and past life data suggests that a typical soul undergoes tens or hundreds of reincarnations. This is the data we have.
Another observation to make is that the human brain that we get when we incarnate contains a strongly generically-programed survival mechanism inherited from our animal ancestors. This survival mechanism is strongly egoic by nature. The structures of ego is deeply hardwired in our subconscious minds and almost deterministically program our cognition and behavior. The animal-type egoic behavior and cognition is the root cause of most of the conflicts, wars, abuse and suffering on the planet. It is undeniable fact that we experience an enormous amount of suffering during our lives on Earth due to the egoic behavior and mode of cognition. NDE data suggest that we do carry some amount of imprints and content of the egoic mind with us after the death of the body in forms of cognitive and behavioral patterns, in spite of the fact that the brain structures carrying the egoic mechanisms are gone.
Now, let's look at it from common sense point of view. What is the point of re-incarnating into pretty much the same environment and life scenarios for hundreds of times with memories lost and with inheriting such strong animal-level egoic mind and undergoing an insane amount of suffering? What do we learn here? This life experience may be a good lesson to learn for one or a few lifetimes, but what is the point and benefit of going through the same experience tens or hundreds of times? Therefore, there is quite real possibility that we are getting manipulated into these incarnations not for our benefit, but for the benefit of some other organized structure or society/civilization existing in the after-life realms. If this is the case (we are only considering a possibility!), it would be a reasonable measure to try to avoid this reincarnation loop (let's call it "soul recycling"). The data suggests that we get "captured" into the soul recycling by getting attracted to some light structures or visible images with strong emotional content (love, peace), most typically in a form of a tunnel with the light at the end. It does not have to be a tunnel, it can simply be a "Light of Love" of any color (typically while or golden). Another feature is the presence of our deceased relatives. Such set-ups suggests that we are getting attracted by some pre-fabricated structures that resonate with our unconscious desires and expectations. The purpose of this attraction is to make us move into a specific area of the "after-life" state of consciousness where we can be further manipulated into agreeing to reincarnate again. Based on the past-life regression data, the most common arguments for reincarnation that we are presented with are: correcting the errors and wrong-doings of past lives, getting more experience and learning, spiritual growth and "ascension". The first argument of correcting the wrong-doings is flawed because we are simply destined to make wrong doings in the earthly lives and hurt other people because we are so strongly programmed with egoic minds. And they do not need to be corrected anyway, it makes no sense, all those event are already in the past, just admitting the faults is enough. Anyway, all these arguments actually do not make much sense if we look at them with skeptical mind set.
What is the real reason for those beings to force us to reincarnate is not clear. Their motives may be not 100% evil and malevolent, may be they are just running a "human civilization" experiments and need "volunteers". May be they get certain benefits or resources such as energy, it may be that they just enjoy feeling of being in control. But what is more or less clear is that there is a possibility that we are getting abused and exploited not for our benefit. Part of this is our own fault because many of us developed strong addiction and attachments to the pleasures and thrills of the earthly life, so it is often not so difficult to convince our souls to reincarnate. But there is no reason to go into a victim mode. What we need is to consider the situation objectively with common sense and make reasonable measures and efforts to avoid being caught in this abusive recycling system again next time when we leave our bodies. The measures can be quite simple (such as do not enter into any type of tunnels, portals or openings, be careful with communicating with any "loving" lights, especially if you are being attracted or convinced by someone to go somewhere). Another kind of measures is to work with our consciousness and clear it from illusions, attachments and addictions that attract us to the life on Earth so that we will not be so easily manipulated to re-incarnate. If all of this turns out to be not true, we don't lose much. But based on the available data it still make sense just to be cautious and take reasonable measures to avoid possible dangers and traps in the after-life state of consciousness. There is no need to become paranoid about it. We do it all the time in our lives too, we do not take snakes by hand, we do not drink liquids if we do not know their content, it's just common sense.
The point is: even if this "soul recycling system" is a bogus, there is still strong reason to suggest based on the data that we re-incarnate multiple times on Earth with the whole package of suffering and confusion. If there is no recycling system, then obviously we are the only ones to blame for that: it's our own desires and addictions that motivate us to reincarnate. So, if we want to brake this cycle, we still need to work on ourselves to clear our consciousness form these cravings, desires and addictions, and possibly go even much deeper and unroot the very ground of these cravings and egoic mind itself. Traditionally, this is what Buddhism is about, but it does not have to be a specific Buddhist type of practice (although Buddhists did accumulate a lot of practices and knowledge on this topic that we may consider useful).
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Post by Stranger2 on Mar 9, 2020 15:41:02 GMT
For sceptics, just a note on the philosophical side:
- The only empirical ground and reality we have available is the presence of our consciousness and its content (conscious phenomena: sensations, feelings, thoughts, images). This is an undeniable fact of the direct experience in each moment.
- Existence of anything else "outside" our consciousness is always an unprovable hypothesis, including even the assumption that any "outside" actually exists. This includes matter, God or even other consciousnesses. There is nothing wrong with using and assuming hypotheses, this is the way we function in reality. However, what hypotheses we chose (or often more strongly: chose to strongly believe in) will determine and almost program our cognition, the way we live, behave, understand and experience life. From this practical point of view it makes sense to choose the most "optimal" and efficient hypotheses that makes our lives eventually happier and more fulfilling and allow our consciousness to develop. They also should not to be too short-sighted and limited so that they would not limit us to broader possibilities in life. On the other hand, assuming too far-going hypotheses (take for example most world religions) often do the opposite and often limit our possibilities and do too much mind programming. There should be a reasonable compromise here.
- There is a vast variety of such hypotheses available and every person choses whatever resonates more with him/her. But understanding of the fact that what we chose to believe in is actually always a hypothesis and the choice is always flexible and always can be re-adjusted is a good thing, it frees our minds from being stuck in certain beliefs for very long periods and opens venues for further development of consciousness. This usually calls for critical reassessment of one's beliefs with open and skeptical mind. That does not mean that we should change our beliefs everyday, it's good to stick with some hypotheses or beliefs that work for us on each stage of our life, but still keep the mind open and flexible to re-adjust once we grow up and out from old beliefs.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2020 0:06:51 GMT
Eloquently and simply put stranger2
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Post by Henrik on Mar 10, 2020 15:35:15 GMT
Agreed, well written. Wether we are choosing to reincarnate or "being chosen" still is up in the air and probably will be until we no longer are incarnating or able to "gaze into the void" in a meaningful and communicable way; a matter of belief or hopefully hypothesis, but I whole-heartedly agree with your approach.
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Post by pilgrim1111 on Oct 1, 2020 2:31:20 GMT
what good is a tool without the knowledge to use it? our consciousness is the tool, our directed focus/intent/will is the knowledge and together they are the way.
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Post by pilgrim1111 on Oct 1, 2020 3:12:26 GMT
i cannot definitively answer the question of birth by choice and/or coercion, but based on pre-birth memory (mine) i know that i experienced mostly dread and also anger at the coming physical birth. it is hard to say for sure whether i knew that this place was a place where one could experience pain and suffering or if i knew that i would experience pain and suffering, but i knew before coming here that it was going to be a bad experience and it wasn't going down well. that i did know! i resisted this birth as much as i could and my earth mother died and had to be resuscitated (having her own nde experience). my mother and myself never spoke of this until i was in my late 40's when i wrote of my birth memory and she had a chance to read it, only then did she tell me that now she understood and told me of what happened to her and how she had the impression that (in her words); "this child did not want to come."
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Post by IW on Dec 17, 2023 13:54:02 GMT
Hi and welcome new members! At the request of someone (who joined) interested in this thread and the participants mainly on the first page;
I have reread all of the first page and discovered the second page, which is new to me even though a few years old. My main interest in it, was that it was folks from WPP continuing a conversation about the recycling system in place; what exactly they thought it was {keeping souls here} and the differing opinions on what the focus of life on earth is to be.
To answer that person's question, I am not sure who twelve strand is, stranger2 is, nor looking2 in real life, nor do I know if they are actively visiting and what they may be doing currently to direct that person for contact.
I think your best bet is to post something in this thread or even start your own thread about your research and ask for their opinion? If they read it, there might be a good chance if they are able, to respond. I will do a copy and paste and send it to you.
I really hope all who were active 2018-2022 are doing ok and living well. It would be great for some updates, to see how perspectives have changed since this thread by looking2 was made.
Like Henrik said above, some things are up in the air and is a matter of belief or hypothesis. I would add that as stranger2 also said- 'critical reassessment of one's belief should be done with an open and skeptical mind'.
There is GREAT value in leaving things open and living in awareness that YOU may need reassessment often and not only around the beginning of the new year.
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Post by IW on Dec 20, 2023 11:45:39 GMT
I apologize for any error in my understanding of the old forum disruptions, I was not an inner circle person, and had no dealings with Wes. This is only my personal thoughts, I never claim to know it all, and in fact your opinion could be more factual than mine. I wrote this as a message to a question.
Hello __,
It's been at least 6 yrs since I have read his papers and I cannot have a pro or con to reading it in full. I did find it helpful at that time, but who is to say if you fit into the sameness of where I was at- back then? I suggest you decide as you are reading if it rings a recognition bell for continuation.
I totally agree that he is/was biased toward Orion, he has his hand in it with his unknown "source" that he somehow trusted, he did some sort of twin flame bonding with a lady, which is part of what prompted (or initiated) the whole shut down of the forum he had at that time. To this day he has not been open about that lady (I'm as an outsider) nor the supposed "source". How does a person admit to having a hand in the Orion empire through holes, but deny any other part going in? Going in is not the same as getting out is it? There is some confusion on that.
I did reread the whole postings before responding in this thread. I read it when it was posted (2020?), but holes or not, does not seem to be the question at all for me (since I did not respond back then nor now), escaping also not a factor in my living. Full awareness counts, and full appreciation, seeing a bigger picture and my own reflection, but not dwelling there but here.
A person named John who was in the old forum comes to mind, hope he is alright!, wanting to be a force, and thoughts towards being a political figure to fight his fight to make the world better.
None of us are really meant for that business, but some find it attractive or necessary to look for a bigger spot as a player here. All parts of the game that captures.
Feel free to respond and thanks for your question ___.
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Post by merlin on Dec 21, 2023 14:21:18 GMT
I said before wes most likely is contrplled opp, some sort of agent of sophia, and orion. It's sad .
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Post by Wickie on Jan 20, 2024 21:58:34 GMT
I liked what Stranger 2's take on nets, possible disinformation, the Source or Orion representative. This is many years after this forum seems to have stalled, but I would like to add, I have had clashes with 'Ariel Glad'. She is a hardcore Christian who hooked up with Wes for money. She insisted on being involved with his life work, and really has no respect for the people figuring things out. Everything she said with him, and what Wes said during her time with him, throw out the window. She was just a girlfriend, a user, and fake. I was on Wes' forum ages ago, and wondered what happened. Ariel happened. Narcissistic...where Wes was going on about narcissists, he was caught up with one. Wes is just like the rest of us, and makes mistakes letting some people in, and the website was destroyed probably by Ariel or an associate of hers. I inadvertently found out exactly what she was about. Wes has several books out now, and he is still changing his thoughts, how things are. He still believes we can escape through a net...but admits he can still accept new information if its more compelling, from what his book says. I have had near death experiences, really unusual supernatural phenomena, UFO sightings, ect, apart from Wes....came to similar conclusions. I never have actually met Wes, am not a girlfriend. Just a friend. Would love to chat with Stranger2!
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